*****MUSH MEET*****

Discussion Chamber(#7RJh)

        A large auditorium, buried deep in the hearthstone of Abode. Rows upon rows of 
theater seating provides for a large number of guests, all curved in to face a large marble 
table on a stage in the middle. Preservers flirt around, offering food and refreshments to 
anyone gathered, their 'bree-dree-dee's echoing throughout the cavern. Off to one side is a 
door leading to a side room that has a window back into this room. On the door is the 
label, "Chat Box".
        This room facilitates large-scale discussion and has several attributes with which to 
do that. If moderation mode is on, only moderators and those given voice will be able to 
speak - all others will be muted.

Announcement: Traest shouts, "MUSH meet starting in a couple minutes! If you're not 
@tel'ed in #7, You're Just Not Cool. We will be discussing (amongst other things) the 
Staff policy Manual located at http://blargh.com/policy.html - everyone take a couple 
minutes to read through it."

Traest says "Alrighty people, lets get started. Everyone take your seats. :)"

Traest says "The agenda for this meeting is available at +bbread 1/67, with a couple 
changes. Item 1) will not be done, as a) there's nothing left to vote on, really, and b) 
slacker Traest couldn't finish +poll in time. We do have a lot of announcements though so 
that time will be added into Item 2). Item 6) Is changed to "Comments about the Staff 
Policy Manual", as available at http://blargh.com/policy.html"

Traest says "With that, a few announcements:"

Treestump can aid with coding.(just throwing that in here.)

Traest says "1) As most of you are aware, we are in need of staffers. Take a look at the 
staff manual (URL listed above, which will eventually be on twomoonsmush.org after its 
finalized) and see if you're interested in helping out in 1 or more roles listed. If you are, 
please +mail staff and let us know."

Traest says "2) After the long discussion on Natil's Live Journal, we have started down 
multiple roads to improving things around here. One is the now-oft-repeated staff 
manual, which covers a number of items. Secondly, I am also working on the 
calendar/+rumors board thingy. Thirdly, we sent out a +mail to chiefs about activity. 
We'll discuss that more when we get to it (point 5 on the agenda)."

Traest says "3) As part of #2, staff just finished a rather lengthy debate about +nom. This 
system would allow players to nominate others for outstanding role-play. Once a month, 
all the +noms would be collected, and looked over by a group of 5 people (non-staff) who 
would vote on them with points from -2 to +2. The sum is taken, and if more than 0, 
those number of points are awarded to the +nominee, to spend on increasing their magics 
and skill sets. We have decided to give the +nom system a try on TwoMoons, barring 
major complaints from anyone here, but NOT allow point spending yet, until we get a 
good feel for how it is working."

Traest says "(We will discuss +nom further, later in this meet)"

Preyrunner cools :)

Redstar grins.

StarShine nods and grins.

Traest says "That ends the main announcements. Next item is a summary of currently 
active Tiny Plots by Maddinagh. So, Maddi?"

Gentlestorm bleahs.

Twinkle turns the spotlight to Maddinagh now.

Maddinagh damns cap lock, one sec.

Leetah has arrived.

Coryphee hugs Leetah.

Leetah hugs Coryphee

Redstar snugs Leetah.

Maddinagh says "There are currently two major Tiny Plots I am/was aware of without 
having been notified from the chiefs. those ones are the Twin Plot in which are actively 
Lostholt and the GoBacks involved, and Blue Mountain has voiced interest, as well as 
Sorrow's End, and currently a Plot for Mistvalley including humans on which Twinkle 
and I worked together, but she's leading it. Else from that one other tribe has sent me 
+mails about their activities, that being Sorrow's End. If anyone wants details, I can give 
them."

Savith raises his hand.

Leetah snugs Redstar and all her other friends (as to leave no one out).

Maddinagh says "Sorry, I forgot the Underworld who voiced interest in the Twin Plot, 
too"

Savith says "Larias has sent an update to Maddinagh and Coryphee regarding a 
Winnowill Plot the mountain has going."

Maddinagh damns, Sorry, yes, I see it now. I didn't attention to that. I have the flu, so my 
concentration is the best *sorries*"

Maddinagh says "is not the best* *hmph*"

Preyrunner snugs Maddie, "We still love you."

Treestump scruffs humorously:>

Redstar offers lemon tea to Maddie.

Maddinagh thanks Redstar :)

Savith as Peyote, heard that Savah had some kind of plot going and did mention that she 
sent along info too.

Gentlestorm nods, "Yes we do have a plot."

Gentlestorm knows about it for what it is worth.

Savith nods to GS and falls quiet about SE now.

Leetah nods "Also Winnowill and I have been negotiating a new TP involving Leetah 
and Blue Mountain."

Coryphee says "Cutter is currently on his way to SE for a very short part of the 
Leetah/Winny plot and another certain Rec plot."

Twinkle says "Okay, so we've established that there are several different plots running 
and being put together... But how deeply did we want to discuss them?"

Maddinagh says "I already said that. Anyway, If you want to know things about the Twin 
Plot, send a +mail to Coryphee foremost. I am invited into most things, and are kept on 
the run with everything, but it's her baby :) If you want to know more about the 
Mistvalley Plot, contact either me and/or Twinkle. If you want to hook up with the 
GoBacks in their current quest to destroy the twins, contact me/Kahvi. Also, if you want 
to know more about the other tribes, but don't know what is currently going on, you can 
_always_ talk to the chiefs, and to me. I hope I will be kept up-to-date on a more frequent 
basis, and if Chiefs or Players want a scene run by RP Staff either with @emitting NPCs 
in a greater fashion than they can do themselves, or if you would like to be sent on some 
Quest: +mail me. I am open for everything, and we can always discuss about this. I will 
clean my +mail box very soon, and will keep a better track of mails now, since there were 
some things that did get lost"

Savith wanted a list of the plots, and their major players/tribes, as Maddi is giving.

Traest says "All that's intended right now is a listing of plots, who, what, where, and 
whom to contact for more info."

Savith nodnods. "Thanks."

Leetah says ""I think it would be nice if we could have a page on the website showing all 
this and updated, etc."

Maddinagh nods to Leetah, "This was suggested among us Staffers, a database of sorts."

Savith adds to Leetah's suggestion: Perhaps a +bboard for these things too?

PreyRunner says "BBoard better idea."

Natil notes, "We have a Role-play bboard already. It could be used more often for the 
posting of current Tiny plots." :)

Woodlock says "Role-play bboard sounds about right..."

Elyana says "But folks have got to /use/ it."

Redstar says "Actually, having both would be great since not everyone checks the +bb."

Leetah says ""Ditto to Elyana's thought""

Savith says "And posting to the board would be an OOC Chief responsibility?"

Coryphee nods in agreement with Elyana, "If we're going to have the bb, it needs to be 
used."

Treestump nodnods to Redstar.

Coryphee has a rule in LH.. read the board or be in the dark.

Redstar checks each day without fail.

Treestump thinks sometimes BBoards don't keep a history/reminder though. A web page 
could do this.

Coryphee says "The board can be set to keep a history."

Savith says "Web page archive of the BBoard?"

PreyRunner says "Mine all time out in 30 days."

Elyana says "Maybe that could be on a web page, the-- yeah, what Savith said."

Traest says "The bboard can be set to longer timeouts."

Woodlock says "Individual messages can be marked to keep, I believe. For more 
permanent info."

Savith says "Perhaps both? 90 timeout on the bboard, then a web page archive?"

Coryphee looks to Traest, I know that it can be set so that they have to be manually 
removed.. why don't we give that authority to Maddi?

Treestump says "Like clean out the archive on a rolling year?"

Traest says "We can set the bboard to timeout 365 days instead of 30."

MoonPool says "But the point is the get the players to read the posts, not just know it's 
there and hope someone will remind them to read it or tell them what's happening."

Coryphee says "That way if something goes on.. like the twins have done.. for months.. 
then you don't lose what's been posted about it."

Savith says "Or clean out whenever a plot closes out/finishes?"

Natil notes, "I am quite willing to post notices about current tiny plots on the web site, 
though coding above and beyond what I already have in place will be time-consuming. 
For the best possible turnaround time on this, I'd best just slap up a page that does not 
require database access."

Maddinagh says "I think every player should be made aware that each TP you are 
running for your character should be reported to your OOC chief anyway. Not ever tiny 
little bit, of course, but OOC Chiefs like being kept up-to-date. at least I do. I have asked 
many times for sending me a little line of what is going on, and if it's just rumor. I don't 
necessarily think everything must be posted by the OOC chief, for the Players, too, can 
post rumors (Chiefs have made various attempts to made Anonymous posts possible)"

Feather has reconnected.

Treestump yikes at a bboard, that would be spammy:>

Twinkle nods, "that sounds good - that way people can be abreast of what's going on and 
what's happened if they go on vacation or something."

Feather has partially disconnected.

Woodlock says "Bboards aren't spammy as long as one reads them regularly. +bbread 1/u 
in the login, say, and you get the new messages since yesterday."

Treestump snugs Natil. "Something like this shouldn't be all your responsibility, perhaps 
a representative from each tribe?

Woodlock . o O (Assuming one logs in with some regularity :)

Sora says "And you can put it in your aconnect."

Woodlock nods at Sora. Meant aconnect, for login.

Natil says "Well, purely for getting it onto the web page, Treestump, that IS my baby. If 
people can get me the information, I can easily, quickly slap it into a basic HTML file 
and make it accessible. But doing something fancier, like making it data based or 
searchable, would take a LOT longer."

Traest says "The OOC chiefs are responsibility for letting TP staffers know what's going 
on in their tribes"

Savith suggests the OOC Chiefs must be responsible for posting updates on tribal TPs so 
that RP Staff can make those part of the global?

Savith grins at Traest. "Mind reader."

Natil cannot guarantee quick turnaround time on anything that requires more than me just 
slapping up an HTML file. :)

Natil says "But people need to get me the information."

Yani says "It took you, what, six months to do the RP logs?"

Redstar says "Many for LH are already posted, but the smaller ones, we should at least be 
told about."

Natil says "The RP logs data basing project is still in progress. The basic code is still 
being added to as I find a need for features. But the most time-consuming part is actually 
the data entry."

Natil says "So for something like a tiny plots announcements page, I would need to figure 
out a fast way to do it so that I wouldn't have to write much new code."

Maddinagh says "My last message was more meant in a player-OOC-chief relation, not 
OOC-chief Staff relation. What I personally wish is that yes, OOC Chiefs send me 
updates at least once a month, and ask for help if they need it, or if they see their tribe is 
inactive. That's my wish, but is no policy yet"

Coryphee says "Natil, I do have some HTML knowledge."

Traest says "All righty, we'll look into what can be done with the bboard/etc/etc. for Tiny 
Plot updates. We do have to move on, though, as some people are short on time. We can 
come back to this in Open Q&A if we want."

Twinkle nods and waits for the next subject.

Natil nods to Cory. We'll take this offline. :)

Traest says "Item 4) Update on what staff do what to whom."

Traest says "Natil and Sora have already posted details to the general bboard. Basically, 
here's where TwoMoons stands right this second:"

Sora says "We have, but people STILL get me and Twinkle confused."

Vitric snerks.

Traest says "We have 2 members on Council - myself and Coryphee. I'm the site admin 
and coder and any other million things. Coryphee is primarily responsible for magic and 
book applications at the moment."

Yani says "Natil, re your data entry. Could you set up an auto-html form on the website 
that would allow people to post tiny plots? Chiefs or something?"

Traest says "Please take it to pages, thank you. (typing more)"

Traest says "Next up are our staffers - Natil, Maddi, Sora, and Twinkle. Natil is 
responsible only for news, and the only reason she has a wiz-bit is because of one 
command related to that. She is a good TwoMoons encyclopedia as well, but she is NOT 
here for player disputes or anything of the like. News. Web pages. Timeline. RP logs. 
Etc. That's it. :)"

Natil has her duties listed out on her +info for the interested.

Natil says "Please use me as a last resort only for anything not in my +info. Thanks folks. 
:)"

Coryphee pokes Traest and can handle General issues too, yes?

StarShine says "I say there should be a place where people can see who is on and marked 
with a H(for Helper)"

Traest says "Sora is newbie help, Staff Shepherd (poke her if something isn't getting 
answered quickly), general questions, player relations (she's the second level in dealing 
with complaints about players - your chiefs are the first, Council is the third and last), and 
the Solitaries chief."

PreyRunner says "+staff should show that."

Traest says "Sora has more information at +bbread 1/72"

*** Moderation mode has been activated.

Traest says "Maddinagh, as we have discussed, is responsible for handling Role-play and 
Tiny plot Management. If you are running a TP, make sure your OOC chief knows. Your 
OOC chief will be notifying Maddi (or whomever is in TP management). This 
responsibility is one of the new ones listed in the staff policy manual."

Traest says "Twinkle handles the Humans and associated Tiny plots."

Traest says "These are our staffers presently, and we have a lot of gaps. Specifically we 
are without a Troll person (as Sora has relinquished that), although someone has said they 
want the job. Again, if anyone is interested in helping out in an official Staff capacity, 
please let us know."

*** Moderation mode has been de-activated.

Traest says "Now, comments, or questions? (Sorry about +mod mode there guys, but I 
was getting drowned out and we need to keep moving)"

Treestump says "need a soft code/in mush area listing of the staff positions open, or did I 
miss where that is located?:>"

Savith has nothing to say thus far. Thank you.

Traest says "Once we get the Staff Policy Manual finalized and Made Official, we will 
indeed have a full posting of whom is where, and what slots are open."

StarShine has nothing to say.

Treestump figured and crosses his arms leaning against a wall. One leg crosses the other 
as he continues to stay keen on what he hears.

Traest says "Alrighty, item 5) Idle chiefs policy. This... is a problem."

Savith raises his hand.

Traest says "We had, when we checked, 12 idle chiefs. I sent out a +mail to all chiefs, 
asking for updates on status from those that were idle, and got only one +mail back. We 
will be starting to de-bit chiefs this week and starting to run the tribal elections as 
required."

Traest says "Yes Savith?"

PreyRunner watches civilization crumble :P

Treestump had a thing where he had to format his hard drive, almost forgot about Stumpy 
for a bit so much to re-load. Perhaps Email for chiefs would be better? Not that I'm chief, 
just that I could see accidents.

Savith is also Hummingbird's player, OOC Chief of the Forbidden Grove tribe. She is 
mostly idle right now, since the Grove is destroyed ICly, and there's little to do other than 
clean up rooms, OOC info, and the like. I do log her in on occasion to check mail and 
make sure things are going well. I will allow the alt to be deleted once/if someone seems 
willing to take over the Grove once more, rebuild it ICly and the like.

Traest nods. "Good idea. I'll send out an email via tm-chiefs shortly."

Savith says "Thank you. </turn>"

Traest says "If any of you know chiefs whom are idle, try and get in touch with them and 
find out what they are planning to do and let us know. As I've said, we'll be starting the 
chief cleanup this week (probably now late this week to let the tm-chiefs email get 
around)."

Natil notes, "Subscribing to tm-chiefs is HIGHLY recommended. Instructions on how to 
do so are in the news under 'news tm-chiefs'."

Twinkle snuggles and notes, "I think the goal here is to let idle players that have chief 
bits just go back down to player status... There really isn't a lot of bad that can come from 
this. Besides, if an accident has happened, they can always see about getting chiefdom 
back no?"

Gentlestorm raises her hand.

Treestump hmms "Unless a replacement has been found. Then perhaps in some ways this 
is fair, and in other ways it would not seem so. Some people really work at the spot they 
have.

Traest says "Go ahead and speak up, we have a few minutes before next topic"

Twinkle says "Why not have regular chief elections? Every couple of months or so?"

Twinkle says "Just an idea..."

Savith raises his hand.

Gentlestorm says "Just as an aside note, I've contacted Ashi and could always do so. She 
has resolved some of her issues so will be able to come back more regularly."

Traest nods. "Savith?"

Gentlestorm says "That is just from the SE side and chiefs."

Savith says "I don't think Chief elections is a good idea, Twinkle. You're talking about 
changing the OOC leadership too frequently. If things are messy and disorganized now, 
imagine the chaos if hands of leadership are changing? While a good idea in theory, it's 
just not practical."

Traest says "FYI, after Savith we'll move on the staff policy manual discussion, why 
some things in there are the way they are, and then we'll be in open session."

Twinkle nods, and agrees, "That's true - I was just throwing out ideas..."

Traest nods. "It's an interesting idea, but yes, probably would result in too much chiefly 
turnover... All righty, Item 6)...

Savith nods and smiles at Twinkle. "And a good idea, but not for a MMUSH. I'm done on 
this topic." </turn>

Traest says "The Staff Policy Manual Revision 4 is at http://blargh.com/policy.html (tired 
of seeing that URL yet)... Staff has been working rather hard on this for the past week, 
mainly to write down what's in our heads."

Traest says "Additional sections are going to be added, geared towards New Chiefs and 
New Staffers, giving more how-tos and the like, but the bulk of /policy/ is done."

Traest says "There are a few proposed changes to policy that need to be highlighted."

Traest says "Most notably, the section "Policies regarding player behavior". This started 
from "news aup", which was really the only place in the news we define what Thou Shall 
Not do. It was short a few items (notably harassment and stalking), which have now been 
codified."

Traest says "There is also now a section on how your chiefs, the staff, and Council will 
handle such complaints. Anonymity (and I ALWAYS have to check how to spell that) is 
covered, along with response time and punishments."

Traest says "Those sections have been rewritten, cleaned up, and written down. 
Especially the punishments section, is the first time that's actually been written down, 
although it has been in the staff's mind."

Traest says "This document will be available to anyone and everyone who will want to 
read it, and the News file will be updated as needed to reflect it."

Traest says "It will eventually live on twomoonsmush.org after it is finished, which we 
expect to be by the end of this week."

Feather has disconnected.

Traest says "I'm now opening this for questions, comments, concerns, "you need to 
include", etc. Anything at all about the manual."

Coryphee just caught this... In Punishments #2 headed should be heeded. :)

Savith takes a moments to read through

Gentlestorm dryly notes that she hasn't had a chance to read it; therefore, has no 
comments she'd care to make... even on the sections she's just read. "All my comments 
would be decidedly pithy."

Redstar has skimmed over it.

PreyRunner says "Seems alright to me."

Redstar says "Other than needing a bit of cleaning, I think its about as complete as you 
can get, though in my honest opinion, staff and chiefs active times should be a bit longer 
per week. That's just me."

Elyana thinks it's fine, if kind of depressing that certain things have to be /spelled out/ 
like this.

Traest says "These are the policies that will be dictating how we deal with problematic 
players. I encourage everyone to read over at least that section and make sure they're 
comfortable with everything listed."

Maddinagh nods, "I think there should also be a rule about Office Times. Two days with 
at least an hour of office times. My two cents."

Traest says "You'd be amazed some of the things we're told 'you should spell it out then', 
Elyana. :)"

Savith nods. "So far, no other comments or suggestions from me. I would like to take the 
time to discuss this with my OOC Chieftess in more detail, and we can get you full 
comments and the like soon, if that's alright, Traest? I for one am VERY glad these 
things are written in black and white. Makes it very clear.

Twinkle must answer the doorbell.

Treestump says "Now can I point out one problem that I see as almost impossible to fix 
that could explain the smaller size of TM? without anyone thinking I'm odd?:>"

Elyana ohs! "What Maddinagh said. Office hours!!"

Leetah nods "Unfortunately, with the net being so "free-reign" it is necessary. I haven't 
been to a chat yet where some sort of stalker-esque issue did not occur at some point."

Vitric agrees with Redstar on the staff/chief thing. "An hour/half hour every week seems 
hardly long enough to check +mail, let alone answer concerns."

Traest chuckles. "Well, we didn't want to shock the chiefs into heart attacks by putting 
twenty hours a week in :)

Savith raises his hand.

Traest says "How much is enough, do you all think?"

StarShine raises her hand.

Savith raises his hand.

Gentlestorm does as well.

Traest says "Go ahead and speak out, open forum :)"

Maddinagh says "As said: At least two days with a fixed hour"

Sora says "Treestump wanted to say something."

Treestump had it figured once but erge

Twinkle thinks, "True, true - it can often take awhile to answer +mails properly... I'd 
think at least an hour or 2 a week - because most players put at least that much time in..."

Treestump smirks its ok Sora. I'll wait

Traest says "Let us get this out of the way real quick TS. :)"

Treestump raises his hands inoffensively "I'm fine, No hurry!:.

Treestump :>

Sora says "Personally, I've never had so much +mail that it would take longer than 
30mins to answer."

Traest says "StarShine, Savith, GS?"

Kiralee says "IMHO, staff/chiefs should be spending at least an half-hour a -day- on their 
duties. If they're caught up and don't have an hour's worth of work, peachy. But 
otherwise, at least 30 mins."

Treestump says "You don't read as slowly as I do sora:>"

Sora says "That's true, hon, I forgot."

Treestump LOL

PreyRunner agrees with Kiralee, "I'm on daily."

StarShine says "I agree with Kiralee."

Leetah raises hand.

Traest says "Go ahead Leetah"

Sora says "Sorry, Kiralee, when school starts, some of us will NOT be on every day."

Maddinagh is on daily, too, and my chief-alts are listed in my +finger

Kiralee says "Then you make it up on the off days, Sora. If you're only on every other, 
then it's an hour, every 2 days, instead of 30 minutes, every day."

Maddinagh should probably list her staff-alt in her chief's alt +finger too, heh

Vitric nods to Maddinagh. "That seems a good idea. A period of time once or twice a 
week at least when people know that the person they *need* to talk to will be on and 
fielding questions."

Leetah smiles "I'd like to remind everyone that a lot of these chiefs want to PLAY too. If 
we make them so busy with everything else, how can they ever be a central part of TPs?"

Treestump thinks he figured once that 2-2.5 hours a week was the MINIMUM for a good 
staffer, but decided to spread it out to a 2-week period for evaluating, and spread that 
over a few months

Kiralee says "Again, if there's not that much work to do, spiffy. Means the staffer's doing 
a good job staying on top of things. But otherwise, that should be the minimum amount 
of time for holding a job like that."

Traest says "We're not telling them they have to make busy work for that amount of time, 
Leetah... Just saying chiefs SHOULD be around so often, not only to answer mails, but 
ALSO to be part of making/playing TPs"

PreyRunner says "Leetah, there shouldn't be that much OOC to deal with that you can't rp 
as well. I deal with OOC on the fly, my players come to me and it's handled right then, if 
possible and I still rp a few hours a week."

Treestump says "yes if the staffer has nothing to do, they should still be online, It help to 
encourage others online."

PreyRunner says "Exactly."

Leetah says "Ah, okay. Sometimes, as a chief's mate, I feel he gets way too bogged down 
in dealing with other people's problems and never has energy to RP because of it."

Leetah giggles "Wow...sounds just like a wife, doesn't it."

PreyRunner says "Get some assistants and fost it off ;)"

Treestump smirks!

Treestump Laughs heartily

Elyana hee hee hees.

Redstar says "Its great we have chiefs like Prey and I that are on daily. We've both caught 
questions when staff weren't around along with our normal duties."

Savith says "I would like to suggest that the higher the staff bit on the staff hierarchy, the 
more office hours they must have. IE: Chiefbits must have at least 3 hours per week, Staff 
must have 6, Wizards/Council 9. Not that they are just online in one of their forms, but 
are online with the staffly alt and actively working. If there's not enough work for your 
full hours, you're STILL online, you're still on duty. Oh. on duty! I suggest an ON-DUTY 
toggle for the +staff listing so EVERYONE knows who's on duty and who's not. 
Meaning that if a staffer is not on duty, and it's not an emergency, +mail. When a staffer 
is on duty, page."

Coryphee has 2 seconds, thank, Prey. :)

Woodlock says "Delegation is the most important quality in a tribal leader, yes indeed."

Gentlestorm just pages her comment to Maddi. =P

Gentlestorm agrees with Prey about OOC matters though.

Traest does need to bring back the on/off-duty commands. :)

Treestump baps Traest!:P

Treestump says "AE"

Savith says "You had it, Traest? I would LOVE to see it brought back then."

Redstar says "Yeah, we can never tell if staff are able to help or not."

Traest says "Yes, we had +on-duty/+off-duty. :)"

Leetah says "I'd love that Traest. That way if Cutter is RPing with me or anyone, OOC 
issues could be put on hold if his off-duty sign is on...or something like that."

Gentlestorm says "I will NEVER remember to do that so I will ALWAYS be off or on, 
whichever is set."

Traest nods and makes a note of it.

Redstar says "Cutter has Nightfall and I to help handle OCO matters in the tribe."

Treestump says "or they could find an On-duty person instead of an off-duty person."

Sora says "It's... not a bloody paid job. Too many hours, and we're not going to have the 
energy to give to RP. Granted, I'm often on for hours, after setting some idle message. 
But sometime even that will annoy people. "Why is she on but idle all the time?" and 
such."

Treestump says "exactly red:>"

Traest snickers and will put +on-duty in the global @aconnect just for you GS :)

Sora says "Ooh, I like that Traest."

Coryphee hugs Redstar and Nightfall cause without them, she'd be bogged in OOC stuff 
all the time.. was before they came onboard in LH.

Treestump nods, well a good idea is to AUTO dark yourself if your idle long:>

Redstar is like Prey, she deals with the OOC stuff on the fly, which is very little.

StarShine points to Sora. "I notice that, I think lots of people get annoyed when Staff is 
'on-duty' but extremely idle...

PreyRunner says "If you can't devote that much time, should you be a chief?"

Treestump says "well, now were getting into a bad area, is it a game or a job?"

Kiralee says "Sora, practically everything you've said, on Natil's LJ, and here, keeps 
boiling down to "We don't get paid for this", "we don't have time", etc...if you don't want 
to do the job, why -keep- it? I mean, I don't get that outlook, at all. If you don't want to do 
the work/don't have time to do the work, then don't do that job!"

Twinkle notes that a lot of times I'm on, but no one's bugging me for stuff, so I'm idle...

Coryphee says "It's both, Stumpy."

Treestump says "I prefer to think of it as a game, with responsibilities."

Gentlestorm sighs "How much time are we talking. It is a game AND a job."

Redstar says "I'd say at least one full day per week to be devoted to your duties as chief, 
staff or wiz. Most of us can handle that, even with RL interfering."

Sora says "I've never said I didn't have the time. However, 10 hours a week is excessive."

Savith comments to Sora, "It's not a paid job, but it's still a job. I'm not suggesting mass 
amounts of hours, and for OOC Chiefs, many of those 'hours' might very well be taken up 
with NPC emit RP and the like. But it's still a job, it's still a responsibility, and if 
someone doesn't have the time or the energy to put into the position they simply should 
not have it.

Treestump says "It's a responsibility. If you can't handle it hand it off. I do not see it as a 
job. IE: Jobs pay money:> this pays gratitude:>"

Redstar means an eight-hour day, not a 24-hour day. Heh

Savith says "Again, I suggest a mandatory 3 hours per week of ONDUTY time for chief 
bits, 6 hours ONDUTY for Staff bits, and 9 hours for WIZARD/COUNCIL."

Woodlock smiles faintly.

Kiralee says "If it's excessive, then you don't have time to do -that particular job-, and 
maybe you need one less time intensive. That seems to be the problem with a lot of things 
on TM...there's the "handout syndrome". People -want- the perks, they want the titles, 
they want the positions, the BC's...but not to put in the effort that those things take. :("

Traest says "It's not a job, but being chief/staff/council is a responsibility. Like mowing 
your yard, or what-have-you. :)"

Coryphee thinks we're starting to get into a philosophical debate here, folks.

Treestump hmms and often only has some days 5 hours of active day after work before 
sleep and if I have my kids even less.

Vitric half-smiles at Treestump. "I'd imagine a lot of the staff is feeling underpaid either 
way."

Savith says "Any more the player wants to put in, or any more that the position requires, 
is well, part of the job, but the mandatories would be minimums."

Treestump thinks staff and wizard should be the same. with wizard being able to handle 
emergency's on call from a few select players

Gentlestorm thinks that this should be taken to an LJ thread...

Woodlock says "So how many people do we have on the mush willing and able to sign 
up for 3/6/9 hours a week dedicated to a bit?"

PreyRunner says "Even 10 hours a week is less then 2 hours a day... if you're not around 
that much, what are you doing?"

Larias has arrived.

Gentlestorm says "Working on my dissertation research, Prey. Helping my aged 
relatives... Lots of things."

Redstar can do it since her work schedule allows her in early to take care of things while 
it's slow.

Twinkle can't type fast enough to say her piece!

Treestump yeps, I'm in the woods some weeks.

Savith says "What's 3 hours a week? That can be done in one day when there's no RP, 
you know?"

Treestump says "but that doesn't mean I can't keep up with the work load"

PreyRunner says "GS, if you can't handle that little time... it's what Kira said, should you 
be doing it?"

StarShine sighs and thinks we need to stick to the agenda...

Gentlestorm says "Uh... you did ask what I would be doing, right?"

PreyRunner says "As long as it's getting done... fine, but when the chief's even are not 
around..."

Kiralee says "And those things are fine, GS. But if your RL is that busy, then -maybe 
you're too busy for a chief job-. That doesn't mean you particularly, that's in general. 
Everyone has differing amounts of RL commitment. Some people have 10 hours a day 
free, some people scrape to get 1. But if you're on the busier end, then you need to admit 
to yourself that you DON'T HAVE THE TIME for the job at hand. :("

Treestump stops everyone, lets stop pointing fingers at individuals. try to be less agitated 
sounding everyone, please?

Treestump thinks we need to stay on a general public, not single individual idea here.
thinks

Redstar snugs Cory. She's been enjoying helping where she can with the tribe.

Treestump hmms, Some people do work offline. what about that?

Treestump says "like notes on notepad(No internet) then sign on upload it and move on?"

Savith raises his hand.

PreyRunner says "That's fine, you're still putting hours in."

Traest says "We mainly need the online time to be /visible/, and available to players to 
page, talk, etc."

Treestump nods "it's an alternative I wanted visualized

Gentlestorm thinks Kira and Prey missed the ball. "Never mind." She nods to Treestump. 
"I'm lazy like that too. =)"

PreyRunner says "It's better to be online, though."

PreyRunner says "Page me, GS, I apparently missed your point."

Savith says "I don't agree. I think it should be that minimum of ONLINE and ONDUTY 
hours. Like being available to run tribal plots scenes, reading through and approving new 
character BGs and the like."

Treestump agrees it's better. but some people do such good work that they are not worth 
passing up, sometimes individual exceptions/positions need to be asserted:>

Savith says "However...."

Treestump says "those type of positions need more active evaluating is all I'm saying"

Treestump decides he's either getting too deep or going to confuse everyone so should 
just listen for a bit

PreyRunner doesn't see the confusion, but I agree with Treestump.

Traest says "All righty everyone. Mull it over, we'll send out some mails to get the rest of 
the MUSHes opinion. We probably will be upping the hours, maybe to 3/6/9, maybe 
2/4/8, something like that."

Redstar will be putting all she can until she has to cut back.

Treestump thinks that wizards don't necessarily require more hours than staff, depending 
on there under workers, I have no idea how this MU* distributes that work load, so Can't 
say there:>

Traest says "Alrighty, we're now in our open-discussion section of our MUSH meet. 
Raise hands, get acknowledged, and speak your mind. If you invite public discourse we'll 
open it up for a few minutes, but lets try and keep it civilized, sane, and non-nuts-o."

Savith opens his mouth, but Traest handles the matter, so goes silent again. "Thank you, 
Traesy."

Coryphee says "brb"

Treestump hmms can I bring up an odd point?

Gentlestorm thinks that the number of jobs the person holds needs to be multiplied by the 
time they have to be online. "That alone will keep folks from trying to do too many 
things.

Treestump is still waiting;>

Traest says "Go ahead Treestump."

Coryphee returns

Redstar curls up in Cory's lap.

Treestump ok, one reason it's so hard to get players active on TM is because of the travel-
ability, the organization for a single player to get from one place to the other. If were all 
relying on a single 20 people to be online for RP it's hard to get RP, on most MU*'s there 
are cities tied in with taxi's or some such, that helps them have more active RP. I just 
wanted to point out that as far as that we aren't doing too bad. However maybe We could 
improve the interactive-ness somehow between area's allowing more active or flexible 
RP-ability

Savith raises his hand

Treestump is meaning a single tribe is hard to RP in the same circle some people only 
want to wander then go back the same exact night. This MU* makes it hard because of 
it's time frame and technology.

Treestump is done I think:>

Leetah nods "I concur...I'm still fairly new here in both my character guises and I'm 
always getting lost. The map of this place is not what I call "user-friendly".

Coryphee smiles at Treestump, "We will be working on that side of the MU very soon. 
The main goal right now is to get player/staff relations fixed."

Traest says "I'm not sure what you're after, Treestump? Travel times between holts at the 
moment is relatively short, and most people skip RPing travel time anyway."

Savith raises his hand

Twinkle speak, Savi-kins!

Traest says "Go ahead Savith"

Feather has connected.

Coryphee arghs and will brb again.

Savith says "Thank you. I wanted to say that I understand Treestump's frustration. Travel 
is difficult for a number of reasons. Everything from whom to contact, to how to get there 
is an issue. Not to mention that when traveling there's almost always the chance of 
random things happening, things that need the attention of a chief, at the very least. The 
main issue is whom to contact. I'm of the opinion that the person to contact is the OOC 
Chief. I like SE's policy that visitors just happen. If there are guards, like in the UW or 
the mountain, then the OOC Chief would contact the IC Chief to get the guard PC or 
NPCs out there to RP with the visitors."

Treestump whimpers and hides from the angry wiz 8)

Savith has more.

Woodlock waxes nostalgic about the days when everybody teleported to the campfire 
near lostholt when they wanted RP, no matter the tribe. Heh. "Time I went to sleep, 
though. G'night, all."

Woodlock goes home.

Woodlock has left.

Treestump holds for savith :>

Natil wakes up long enough to mutter something sleepily about volunteer work to 
improve the maps of the grid available to the players is most welcome, for both the 
entries in the news as well as on the web page. I _don't_ have time to make better maps 
myself, but if someone wants to help out by getting me better ones I'll be delighted to 
plug them into both the News file and the web page.

Gentlestorm dryly notes that decreasing the number of rooms might be helpful.

Natil defers to Traest on issues of code and commands.

Treestump says "if all builders used the compass system in their exits an auto map could 
be generated(Go on savith I am still listening)"

Natil says "(Historically though we have tried to encourage people to use cardinal 
directions on exits, yes.)"

Traest sighs. "We need a building wiz and bad for this stuff :)

Treestump eeks..

Redstar suggests TreeStump for that.

Traest mohahahahas :)

PreyRunner says "I can say for sure, MV is using +compass."

PreyRunner built it :P

Treestump is HORRIBLE at typing.. but good at code.. still ok with this?

Savith says "I also wanted to say that yes, the map is difficult to sort out where and how 
to get to a place, but then again, if the character hasn't been there, and without main 
roads, it would be very easy to get turned around and lost, especially when dealing with 
terrain that a character is not familiar with. The only tribe that I can see right now not 
really having that problem would be the gliders in the form of the Chosen Eight. With 
their bond birds, they have almost unlimited travel range. A MUSH wide detailed map, I 
don't think, is something TwoMoons really needs at this point, in my opinion, though 
tribal maps would be wonderful, for tribe mates and guests to find their way around. 
After all, within a holt/village/whatever, there would be trail and paths from one place to 
another. (I'm done now. Thank you.)"

Redstar says "I know building, but there are things I still don't know, or can get confused 
on, so its general stuff."

Savith thinks of something to say about building and rooms, and so, raises his hand once 
more.

Treestump nods but most MU*'s a player can use IC time and still be back in time for IC 
dinner seeing aunt louise 2 towns(tribes) over;> I don't know currently how to fix it right 
now, I'm content with the way of it, Does make it hard for those of us who hate having 
any number of alts though.

Traest says "Go ahead and speak up Sav :)"

PreyRunner says "If anyone wants to see a tribe map for example, as an aside: 
http://www.zor.com/mistvalley/mvft.htm"

Elyana shuffles off to her father's concert. Later, guys.

Treestump nodnods "Prey's got a good one!:>

Elyana has disconnected.

PreyRunner waves.

PreyRunner says "If anyone wants to see a tribe map for example, as an aside: 
http://www.zor.com/mistvalley/mvftm.htm , rather"

Redstar says "Actually, the map on the site needs to be updated terribly since there are 
rooms and exits no longer here that are shown there. At least something for people to use 
to travel between tribes or where ever at least."

Yani has disconnected.

Yani has connected.

Traest chuckles. "Yes, definitely need a building wiz to help work through these things, 
and a MUSH map, etc. etc.

Natil is getting dragged offline, folks, for AFK foo. Does anyone have anything they 
need me to address before I scram?

Traest says "Also, our Sky Room (for the Gliders) is... well... Bad Off."

Redstar thinks we can handle it.

Treestump eyes Redstar and sighs unknowingly "I want to hear what savith has to say 
first

Savith says "Thank you, Traest. As a Building WIZ from another MU*, I have always 
tried to watch the number of rooms on the grid. It reduces database bloat. While I don't 
know what the storage space here is, or how many objects we are currently running, I 
would suggest that Build Policy reflect this, and if not in place, BUILDER alts be held to 
a certain quota for each tribe, with a Head Builder making sure no one area goes over 
that. As Building WIZ, I made it a rule of thumb that if an area gets less than two scenes 
per month and is not an integral part of getting from one area to another within an IC 
grid, it needs to be removed. This was especially true for 'home's and now dens. For this, 
I always made it a point to make heavy use of room desc and places code in order to 
simulate an area having more than one room without having to use the four to five bits of 
object code to get it done."

Treestump ohs and realizes wait, was that Red and prey going to be doing it?!

Traest says "Storage space is not an issue, and the TM database is approximately 7000 
objects or so right now. :)"

Natil, given nothing that needs addressing, snugs all and bamfs. :)

Gentlestorm says "But I agree with Savith."

Savith smiles at Traest, but nods. Thank you.

Natil has disconnected.

Gentlestorm says "We still need to nix chronically unused rooms."

Traest says "We do also have tribal builders, and we do enforce quotas"

Maddinagh tosses out something herself that she would like to get fixed, "Time speed is 
insane. If I want to take a week off because I am on vacation (or just imagine three weeks 
vacation!), or I need a break, this is easily done for the staffing part. It's why tribes tend 
to have at least TWO OOC chiefs, and Staffers can share this bit. But when I am gone 
with a character for a week, my character suddenly misses _months_ in RP. Also, I am 
rather dissatisfied with the quality of how Recognitions are taken. On other Mushes 
where there is a time rate of 1.3:1 they have to carry their babies almost 9 months, too, 
and while I acknowledge that Elfquest elves have a breeding time of 2 years (!), there's 
still something that we can bend it, if players want to, so that it's 9 months, too, same as 
humans. That would be, in some ways, breaking consensus, but some players have voiced 
on the LJ that we are way too strict about canon anyway. And I think in this case, rules 
can be stretched to our likings, to make Elfquest _more_ RP-able. Furthermore. Yes, 
right now it's very easy to travel when you consider the time it would take. You can 
travel in an OOC week a really long distance, but all the problems that are voiced here 
have to do with how the grid is made, with how the tribes are set up ICly (specifically 
Gliders and Underworld) and with the theme. So, honestly, if we can't find IC ways to 
change the travel-problem, I don't believe we can find a solution to it at all. And if it's 
activating the Palace to be used for traveling. Whatever. I think this is an extreme 
example of a thing that is OOC, but can't fixed without IC changes - and that's my two 
cents as Player, you know, the person sitting at the computer.

Traest says "I'm not really concerned about DB bloat though, as long as things are 
useful."

Traest says "Well, until our DB gets to needing 6 digits for DBRef numbers, then I'll 
need to redo a few things :)"

Sora says "Or even just a year for gestation, Maddi... yeah, it's bending the canon but it is 
a long time, esp. if we slow the time speed."

PreyRunner says "We are hardly that canon anymore, Maddie."

Traest nods. "We have already slowed down TwoMoons once, from 12:1 to 6:1. At that 
time code was added to make further slows much more trivial. If we want to.

Leetah nods "The time speed is impossible for me to keep up with, too. Is there way we 
can slow it down some? The seasons go by too fast."

StarShine hms. IMHO=I don't think we should really be called EQ anyone more I mean if 
we're so far away from the cannon that we are only borrowing the ideas to some extent 
then maybe we should be called Two Moons you know.

Treestump thinks, 1 week in 1 day is a bit much.

Redstar says "For those of us that are born, or start young here, the current time allows us 
to develop a bit faster so we don't get bored within a kid."

Coryphee returns and tries to play catch-up.

PreyRunner says "Much slower... ugh, elves would never grow up. I'm not spending 
/years/ to get to adulthood."

Traest says "That's the main problem. We go to slow, and kids never grow up. :("

Leetah considers "Is there way we could accelerate growth of youth, but slow down 
adults? To address the issue Redstar just made?"

Treestump says "some of us like playing kids:>"

PreyRunner says "That's silly, I hate when Pern games did it."

Treestump Hehe's

PreyRunner says "Move the same speed, I've had people /older/ then their parents that 
way."

Sora says "Well, Prey, maybe we slow them down when they hit 20."

Leetah was just making a suggestion.

Sora says "It is a conundrum."

Traest says "Handling non-linear time is very, very nasty."

Vitric agrees with Prey on that. "Adjust the time to whatever the majority goes with, and 
just have players be aware that yeah, if you're playing a kid, you're going to be playing a 
kid for a while."

Redstar says "I don't even want to consider the code do it like that."

Traest says "The better way to do it would be say, "Ok, we reach full maturity at 10 turns 
now instead of 20""

PreyRunner personally liked the 12-1... things progressed.

Savith agrees with Traest, but notes that RP is RP, whether it's as a child or adult. The 
trick is to find the fun. If you can't, then don't play.

Savith raises his hand.

Vitric says "I'm pretty happy with 6:1, myself."

Sora says "That's true. If you play a kid, then you should know it's a kid."

Maddinagh says "what about changing it to 3:1? It doesn't have to be 1.3:1, but the 
current time speed is too insane for me to catch up, especially because I live in Central 
Europe. Many of you RP when it starts to be evening for you, and when I start working 
regularly again, I will probably only get to RP on the weekends"

Treestump agrees with savith

Maddinagh is not the only from Central Europe, imho

Treestump says "most go with 3-1 I think"

PreyRunner says "3-1? gah. :("

Savith raises his hand.

Redstar says "We all need to keep in mind, we can back scene if someone has been gone 
for a while say for vacation, or other issues. It's done many times."

Treestump says "Savith:>"

Redstar cringes at 3:1.

Redstar suggests 4:1.

Savith raises his hand.

Maddinagh says "Yes, but I like consistency. I hate back-scening. I want to log on one 
day, RP, and don't let two weeks skip when I log on two days later"

Gentlestorm notes that no matter what, back-scening is going to be a reality.

Vitric personally thinks that the 'cute little cub' factor could stand to be squished a bit, but 
he doesn't have any so it doesn't really matter. ;)

PreyRunner says "DO you want time that linear, Maddie? to rp out /every/ day?"

Savith raises his hand.

Vitric halts for Savith.

Twinkle says "Go Savi!"

Treestump agrees again with Vitric, Played a cub once, 2 days was enough!:>

Redstar says "Time stops can also be put to use also. We can't RP the amount of time it 
takes to finish a scene."

Sora says "I'd just go ahead Savith."

Traest says "Keep this in mind, folks. At 3:1, travel time from, say, the Underworld to 
Lostholt will be 2 RL days. From Lostholt to SE will be about 5 RL days I believe. Etc. 
etc."

Gentlestorm says "Right... Say it Savith. =)"

Treestump thinks Traest should give Savi the Beep() command:>

MoonPool says "If we bring it down more, I say 4:1, but no less."

Traest says "Go ahead Savith :)"

Treestump Agrees in 2 years when He's able to be online all but 4 hours of the day, I'll be 
bored with a slow timeline:>

Maddinagh has no problem with that travel-times, "As said, I think 1:1 will be 
impossible, and no one will want it, but 6:1 is too insane. I can't catch up, and I don't 
always want to do back scenes. And I know many don't want this, either"

Gentlestorm clears her throat, "Would everyone PLEASE let Savith speak?"

Larias says "Can folks wait ... maybe? I'd like to see what Savith has to say, or is this just 
a free for all?"

Traest says "We're kind of in FFA mode right now :)"

Leetah thinks Savith is busy typing message.

Treestump puts on his couch uniform and starts couching "you in the outfield, Move 
back!" oh wrong game!:>

PreyRunner says "Maddie, even at 6-1, you can run any scene you want, any time... who 
cares what +season says?"

PreyRunner says "The code is a tool, not a rule."

Coryphee has a suggestion.

PreyRunner says "Elves are all but immortal, if 10 years go by, they don't even notice."

Winnowill has arrived.

Maddinagh says "the problem is, Preyrunner, that if we are all not on the same page, it's a 
problem. The Festival of Flood and Flower WILL be a problem, because you have to do 
this every two months!"

Treestump hisses

Maddinagh says "just as example"

PreyRunner says "Heck, in 9 years of being here, I've only aged 90 years."

Coryphee says "Why don't we do some testing with different times and see by player 
consensus 
what time speed is like by the most players?"

Leetah seconds Coryphee.

Traest supposes we could poll it. :)

Redstar thirds Cory.

Coryphee hugs Winny, "Welcome dark lady."

Traest says "But there's a LOT of considerations behind a timescale change, people."

Treestump Polling sounds good, doing sounds bad:>

Gentlestorm says "Polling is better than testing for THAT..."

Redstar slurps Winnie.

PreyRunner says "Easy, Maddie, run it based on a real time frame, not what the game 
says, like every 6 months."

Traest says "Travel times. Children growing up. Seasons, turns, etc."

Sora says "Right now, how many IG days to RL days?"

PreyRunner says "6-1"

Coryphee says "But some people don't really know how a certain time speed is going to 
work for them if they don't play with it."

Treestump says, "don't forget RP comfort!"

Sora says "Time speed's always confused me a bit."

Savith says "Thank you. While I agree that the current time speed is a bit whacked, and 
I've been on places where time was one to one, there are pros and cons to everything. Do 
we make it 1:1, and have everyone RP every single day? Do we go 20:1 and just RP the 
highlights of life? Then there's back scenes. In the end, I think the time speed discussion 
is up to Staff and the Wizard Council. Then, it's up to us, as players, to make the IC time 
work out for our story line. The thing to remember is that the ONLY ones on this MUSH 
that really need to care what time it is are the Humans, ergo, Twinkle should have the 
most say since she's the Human Staffer. Why? Because Humans expire. They have a set 
time on this world. Elves, even wolf-blooded elves, live for so long they age, and don't 
realize it. They simply don't feel how and when time passes. Mrs. Pini made that very 
clear in Book 9: "Rogue's Challenge". I don't particularly care what the time speed is, so 
long as the +season stays to help us sort out when is when, for as I said, elves don't feel 
time pass (That's a human trait) and are immortal. They don't care. As a final note, I 
would like to suggest that this discussion become mediated to that people making points 
have time to type them out fully and proof read before the topic over whelms them and 
they have to play catch up. Thank you."

Treestump only uses them to see if it's light or dark, hot or cold

Coryphee offers to moderate.

PreyRunner agrees with Savith.

Gentlestorm seconds Savith.

Savith raises his hand on the moderation topic.

Maddinagh agrees with Savi, too

Traest says "Go ahead Savith"

Gentlestorm has another topic when we are done with moderation so raises her hand.

Savith says "May I suggest that people raise their hands to speak, and only the Moderator 
(Coryphee or Traest) have the authorization to recognize them with a Go ahead, or just 
their names so people know who's speaking. The speaker makes one post, as clearly as 
they can, says they are done, and the moderator recognizes the next person. All other 
discussions can be done with other alts or in pages. Thank you."

Treestump is open for anything on the time thing.

Leetah has an issue, too.

Savith says "I'm done. *^^*"

Traest says "Gentlestorm"

Coryphee points at Cutter and Raven if someone has something to say that's off topic to 
her.

Gentlestorm comes back to the screen.

Traest would ask people to pre-type things if they can to speed this along. :)

Gentlestorm says "About RP... Having TP's is all well and good, I suppose... but... I still 
believe that we need to address the quality of RP eventually. I have RP scenes with 
people and I can't respond because I have nothing to work with. Try it Traest, I bite."

Treestump clears his throat only smirking. and Yes please don't wait to type things out, if 
your afraid of not being able to reply fast enough you can page me and I'll cut and paste it 
together for you.

Gentlestorm is done, actually.,

Treestump sorries, gentle

Gentlestorm has no problem with it, Treestump. =)

Traest says "Leetah"

Traest pokes the healer...?

Leetah says "One thing that has greatly troubled me as a BC is the criticism I receive 
about how, when, what, where, and why I play her. Reading the LJ, the number one 
characters attacked for not RPing regularly were the BC's. How do we address this issue? 
I'm a BC who absolutely adores my character and have a lot I could give to this character, 
but need an entire holt to interact. Having someone go off on me because I'm not active 
enough seems fairly...well...unconstructive. If I arrange a RP, I am here no matter what 
unless something in RL invades, then I apologize as soon as I can. (cont)

Savith raises hand.

Leetah continues "If someone wants to play this character and can't because its filled, is 
that my fault? Why should I give her up just because I can't be on 24/7. Now that summer 
is here, I intend to be much more visible, but can I promise when school starts back up 
that I'll be able to be regular...no. What a conundrum

Traest says "Savith"

Treestump raises hand.

Larias raises a hand.

Savith plays a BC as well. Strongbow. I've had finals, summer jobs, and all sorts of RL. I 
agree with Leetah, BCs need to be the best that the player can give to the alt, but it is not 
a staff position. It would not require anyone be online for any length of time, unless said 
BC is in a chief spot, as IC Chief. As long as the RP stays in the spirit of the BC, and the 
pose quality is good, BC PCs don't have to be on for any length of time. I would hate to 
log in, see a bunch of BCs doing nothing but idling. Were I a newbie, I'd think this place 
was boring. 'Look! My heroes, doing squat. I'm out of here.'
Savith is done.

Traest says "Treestump"

PreyRunner grins, "That's when you get active with said visitor, Savith and get them to 
stay."

Leetah nods "I once idled for 4 hours as Leetah and not a soul said hello to me. My holt 
was empty, but I was curious how long I could stay logged in without a single 
message...after that, I quit lurking.

Treestump Ok this means not I cover both subjects. I find that each player has there own 
idea from the books(an emotional imprint if you will) about the player and how they 
should react to their exact words. Some even feel that they should react exactly in such a 
way, that other might feel is exactly opposite of what the other player feels they would 
do. Also on the BC activity I do believe it should be active at least on a weekly basis(no I 
haven't met that agreement as of the last 3 months for which I had computer down time 
and was prepared for the consequences)

Treestump just wanted to state his opinion DONE

Traest nods. "Larias waved herself back off - anyone else have something to say?

PreyRunner raises hand.

Traest says "Prey"

Gentlestorm raises a hand.

PreyRunner okays, "I hate to say it, but if you're a book character, it's up to all of you to 
drive the rp. You took the responsibility to play a book character, it's up to you to do 
something about it, not everyone else. Now, of course, plots should be running nearly all 
the time, but as a player, you should be coming up with plots as well. A big advantage I 
have in MV is there are NO BC's at all. Complete freedom of character with all the 
players and we all do well together because of it. Now that the tribe is back in a high 
active swing, there is going to be a lot of rp going on for us. My point is, you picked a 
feature, you're in the spot light, it's time to dance for the visitors and the non-BC's and be 
a beacon of light for them to aspire to.

Larias raises a hand

Savith raises his hand.

Coryphee raises her hand.

Traest says "GS"

Treestump smirks at the hands.

Gentlestorm says "One problem I've... noticed is that some people feel that the person 
RPing the BC should react exactly like the BC in the book does... I'd like to just point out 
that this is an impossibility. History here will change a character. Also, player differences 
make new players seem different. Allowing new BC's to find their "niche" is important..." 
She looks at Prey, "As for Driving RP... Yeah... They should assist with RP but when you 
have someone who gives you back nothing to work with, leaving is an option. I still say 
that PLAYERS in general are responsible for driving RP as well as others.""

Yani has left.

Yani has arrived.

Coryphee puts a pillow down for Yani so she won't bounceybounce.

PreyRunner agrees, fully. Garbage in, garbage out.

Treestump agrees.

Redstar nods.

Traest says "Larias"

Larias says "I agree with Preyrunner. Yes, BCs are characters that should be driving RP, 
to a degree. But BCs, like everyone else, are limited by what other PCs are willing to 
play. 
Leetah said she was on idle for 4 hours, she was there, she was available, but there was 
no one in her holt to react to. How can she drive RP if she has no one to play off of? Also 
- I have Moonshade's player at my house. She was an integral to a plot that was designed 
to activate some inter-tribal RP. Unfortunately, there was almost NO response from the 
players involved. Be that lack of response bad communication of what was going on, or 
just not caring, I don't know, and she doesn't know. But, she tried, and there was minimal 
response. BC's can only drive plots so far as others will react to them. Everyone is at the 
mercy of everyone else."

Larias says "Done"

StarShine waves bye bye for now

Coryphee lowers her hand cause Larias said what she was going to say for the most part.

StarShine has left.

Traest says "Savith"

PreyRunner raises his hand again.

Savith says "I just wanted to say that I agree with Prey completely, and with Gentlestorm. 
All valid points, and all things that ALL players, BC and non, need to remember. We 
have been here longer than any 'newbie' that comes to us, unless it's a returning player. 
That means we all need to be responsible for our RP style and so forth to make everyone 
else's RP better, not such think about ourselves and our worlds. And yes, agreeing with 
Larias too. I'm all about agreements! ;) I'm done."

Redstar would have loved to have some RP time with Leetah, before and after loosing her 
sight.

Traest says "Coryphee"

Treestump raises his hand

Gentlestorm thinks she lowered her hand, Traest... or she did earlier.

Redstar raises her hand.

Traest says "Treestump"

Leetah grins @ Redstar "Am working on that very idea as we speak. *winks*"

Savith has reconnected.

Savith has partially disconnected.

Gentlestorm raises her hand again.

Treestump nods in agreement with leetah as well, some days it seems people log on to 
idle. I'm not complaining, however but On a side not Some of these people are always 
going to complain about not getting RP especially when they were idle and seeing other 
people RP with the same person there in the room with. In some ways they feel being 
BC's we should forward ourselves on them. I just want to make it clear that often I say 
"RP?" unless I'm usually saying that to the same person day in or day out. then I don't 
sorry it was slow, was my turn before I was ready DONE

Treestump Also lags

Treestump has reconnected.

Traest says "Redstar"

Treestump hmms, so, see my pose? I guess o:>

Treestump has partially disconnected.

Traest says "Redstar?"

Redstar says "When this character was created, I picked out several tribes in which to 
'wander' into and have a new life as an actual member instead of wandering about with 
her parents as stated in the background. LostHolt was the first one I +mailed the request 
to, and they answered. A club could stir things up. In the beginning it did. now, as she's 
growing, and has had one heck of an experience at Blue Mountain, and it seems a lot of 
the RP is slowing down. If I know who the alts are to the BCs in the tribe, I'll page, and 
invite to RP, or even toss a few ideas about. Its not easy being an original char in a 
mostly BC tribe, and trust me, it has been fun. In LH, I'm willing to have just about 
anything happen, within reason, t help spark even the most minor of RP. Its with this that 
I agree with Prey, and Savith, and even Leetah. Still, even I need to be poked after 
logging in because I don't see who's in the room with me until they disconnect."

Redstar was typing.

Traest ahs. :)

Traest says "Gentlestorm"

Gentlestorm purses her lips a bit, "Look, one possible problem with RP is that too many 
people are looking for major events to ... be a part of." She shrugs, "If we are realistic, 
major events happen rarely. The thing is that players are going to have to come up with a 
way to make ordinary events interesting and different so that they can withstand the times 
when the major events are not happening. I do that all the time when people RP with me. 
Faly found out the hard way that things don't go as planned around me (RE: Boar in 
Wrapstuff event at the Crossroads). Sometimes just little things like that can make all the 
difference. We've got to come up with a plan to RP in between the plots. That is a major 
problem." <DONE>
Gentlestorm =P's to Traest, btw. =)

Maddinagh raises her hand

Coryphee raises her hand.

Traest says "Ma-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-di!"

Maddinagh eeps, "No one going before me? Oh dear, have to type this up, so please be 
patient (continued, of course, that was not all)"

Maddinagh says "then let him go before me"

Traest dohs! "Sorry Prey, go. :)"

PreyRunner says "For Larias: If you bust your rear to drive rp and the players are not 
getting involved, then rp with those who are active. There was a time when only 3 of MV 
were active, and we still managed rp, though not so much earth shaking stuff. Obviously, 
if the players don't care enough to rp, there's not much you can do about it. But as long as 
you're trying, then you are doing your part. Me, I'm letting inactive players idledest and 
removing them from the Holt, clearing the cruft for those who care and want to rp. If the 
BC's are not active, then the few guests we have won't care either. I /repeatedly/ get 
guests paging me, looking for help and rp, because my @doing Shows me as chief. Get 
on more often and get the rp going, it snowballs, quickly into an active tribe. I get told all 
the time who is inactive. I'm sorry if I sound cross or short, I'm not, really. I'm tired of the 
whining. You volunteered for the job, do it, or give it to someone who will. (end rant)"

Redstar pets Traest.

Treestump ROFL pointing at Treast DONE :P :P

PreyRunner spams.

Leetah raises hand for response to Prey.

Traest says "People, do me a favor when you hand raise and use OOC for it so it stands 
out nice and red? Thanks :)"

Traest says "Go ahead Leetah"

Treestump raises his hand

Coryphee raises her hand.

Redstar sees her OOC in yellow.

Twinkle sees everything in white.

Leetah nods "Okay, will do so next time. Prey...that's fine and dandy if you aren't playing 
a character who needs her best friend (Nightfall), her mate (Cutter), and her cubs (Ember-
-unplayed...Suntop...who knows where) to drive things forward in her world. At LH, you 
can't just play day in and day out with one person...all decisions made by even one 
character can affect a whole tribe and they need a chance to be let in on it, given their two 
cents, etc. At MV, that's much easier, but when you are surrounded by BC 
characters...patience is a virtue. Those not involved in such a complex system of 
characters can't always understand that...thus the criticism LH receives on the whole.

Traest says "Preyrunner last response in this chain then we move on :)"

Coryphee wonders if she's going to get to talk?

PreyRunner says "If it takes that long to get any rp done at all in LH, how can there be 
any fun? It would drive me insane if every single sentence I typed in had to wait to be 
analyzed by everyone else. I guess I do have it easy on that... but even so, as long as 
you're not rocking the boat, why can't you rp without everyone else being involved? 
(done)"

Traest says "Maddi"

Feather has disconnected.

Feather has connected.

Sora says, "Sorry, folks, I have to run... I'm having some serious pain in my back right 
now, I *have* to go lie down."

Redstar snugs Sora.

Leetah grins "Well, I suppose I'm a bit canonical in that bit because Leetah wouldn't react 
without discussing it first with her loved ones. And her loved ones are her whole tribe."

Treestump waves!

Redstar s a part of that tribe, Leetah. *grin*

Sora snugs all.

Sora has disconnected.

Sora goes home.

Sora has left.

Larias says "Can we stay moderated folks? Pages and alts work wonders for the extra 
stuff."

Maddinagh says "Okay, I have been listening for a very long time now, and the 
impression I get is that many have been doing a lot at one point, received no re-action, 
and then lost interest. While this is frustrating for players of every sort (BCs included), 
guess how frustrating this is for _Staffers_. Chiefs never receive answers or response 
when they try to schedule a tribal RP, they never hear back on simple requests, because 
people either forget to check their +mail (and no, chiefs can't be online 24/7 to monitor 
their tribe's activity), or they don't read the bboards ... and when you have announced a 
BIG RP scene (like I have done at least twice for the GoBacks, and only a handful 
showed up (best thanks go to Savith's player, who has stood with me through dark and 
sunny days)), NO ONE shows up. How Frustrating is this? Or, I know some or at least 
one complained about that: They have never seen a post from me or chiefs have never 
received word about me ... this is wrong. I have posted to the bboards, and even though 
this was admittedly scarce, this has a source. Anyway, the first time I send around mail to 
the chiefs asking what is going on in their tribes, I received only ONE answer. Sorrow's 
End. (GoBacks and Mistvalley can be left out here, since I know what's going on there, or 
at least mostly). There are many things all of us can complain about, but whereas Players 
can simply let things fade out, Staffers can't - No, this is not going to be Player vs. Staff, 
it's just a listing of a simple fact: From us it's expected to entertain everyone, to serve 
everyone 100.10% (quotes another Player here who actually said that), especially with 
what they think we have to do, but we don't get any help from players. After some time, 
our interests fades too, because we have to run major RP that's important for a TP with 5 
people out from 30 that could attend, and even if they couldn't, they could drop a note. 
So, my solution to this problem is: We already know what is expected of us, we have 
been discussing this lengthy on LJ and here. We have done the manual, we will go 
through every single comment again when this meeting is over ... but I would like to see 
some reaction from the Players too. No one forbids you to bring in your ideas, to let you 
create TPs. Actually, the first TP I did, well, I was a brand new player back then with 
ideas. And you can do this too. You can create RP, too. Don't sit back and say 'Oh, I am 
just a player, others have to do this for us' or 'Hm, I am not giving too much into a scene 
because others will do it for me'. ALL OF US are players. EVERY ONE of us has to 
contribute to make a Role-playing Game running. Without the Players, the game will 
die."

Treestump Falls over

PreyRunner says, "Aie!"

Gentlestorm says, "Thank you, Maddi!"

Redstar gets flattened.

Treestump sees everyone is misunderstanding I think what the BC's here are trying to 
say.

Traest goofs and finishes reading the novel. :) "Cory."

Coryphee agrees with Leetah on the LH front since she's been running the place for 
nearly 4 1/2 years. Another thing about LH is that when Cutter isn't around, the action 
tends to peter out. I apologize for my lack of major activity this year. I've had some 
things happen to me that didn't allow me to be online much when everyone else was. I 
have done the best I could and unfortunately, the action just hasn't been there while I was 
gone. I'm back now and hopefully it will come back up and we'll see more of the LH BCs 
online. And Prey, I offer for you to pick a LH BC and give it a go sometime. ;)

Savith raises his hand.

PreyRunner pats Maddie on the back, "She walks softly and carries a big... stick ;)"

Leetah nods "I think so too, Treestump. All I'm trying to say is I just want people to be 
more patient. This is my hobby, it unfortunately can not be my life."

Traest says "Treestump"

PreyRunner politely declines, Cory... I never play BC's or FC's on any game. I like 
original design.

Redstar would gladly, but Leetah is her all-time fav with Moonshade and Nightfall next. 
All three are taken, and they are to good players. Wouldn't change it for nothing.

Leetah says, "Then is it fair to criticize how long it takes to do so or be one? If you, 
yourself, are unwilling to try it?"

Treestump says "I'm not exactly complaining here. Just pointing out that this is why 
people feel this way. I know and realize there is little to do about it, but I do think that 
any BC that are a future possibility might want to know this sort of thing before they 
become one. it can help one to know what there walking into. And also there are those 
that know nothing of what they do that might want to know. (This is on the BC vs. PC 
opinions on how to rp a BC.) DONE I add now that I like my character and the positive 
feeling from the players and Staff. At first I wanted to toss my computer but I am much 
more comfortable and understand the circle of it all now. D also Yes leetah If it's not fun 
why do it here?:> Rhetorical question. DONE"

Leetah says, "Redstar, I'd love to have a daughter back."

PreyRunner never said you were taking too long. :)

Larias says "Can that go to pages please? I'm still working on Madd's post."

Traest says "Savith"

Savith says "As far as players waiting for chiefs/staff for RP: My only comment on this is 
to say that while, yes, the players MUST be the front lines for Rp, after all, they are the 
RPers, there are simply some cases in which players cannot RP alone, or would like to 
have a staffer there for NPCs/room effects. Case in point: tromping through the troll 
caves ala Darkedge. How FUN would it have been to have something random happen? 
To have ended up in say.. the underworld? MAN! That would have rocked. But without 
anyone there to emit NPCs or even room effects, the best we can do is say the trip was 
uneventful. Man, does that get boring after a while. Sure, in our owns tribal areas, in 
areas where we're chiefs or been given permission by the chiefs, it isn't an issue. In LH 
and Mountain I can pretty much spoof what I need for scenes, I do so for any player that 
needs things going on in those areas. Why? I have permission. In Sorrow's End, of 
example, with Peyote and Darkedge, I don't. So I can't. I /need/ staff/chiefs to be there, to 
know their stuff, and to RP with me. I'm done."

Gentlestorm raises a hand to reply to Savith.

Winnowill raises her hand to supplant Savith's comment.

Traest says "I need to get a word in here real quick:"

Traest says "The main reason we couldn't give you any RP assistance Savith, is we really 
don't have anyone in charge of the troll caverns. We don't /know/ what's going on - we're 
spread too thin as it is. Our best guess was that they had been abandoned, and that's what 
we gave you. I know it sucks, and I know it would have been more fun if we could have 
come up with something, but we didn't get any advance notice, or what-have-you."

Leetah says, "raises her hand for the next topic that has plagued her mind to be addressed 
after the RP/BC question/comment/session/mess she started on last topic ends."

Traest says "We /have/ pulled staff in to spoof scenes before, to help with other Tiny 
Plots and what-have-you. But we need /something/ to work with, or time to make it up. 
:)"

Traest says "I'm done. Gentlestorm?"

Gentlestorm says "Speaking as one of the SE OOC chiefs, exactly who told you that you 
could NOT. I never thought that you'd have to ask permission to @emit random things in 
your own blinking tribe. OR for that matter, in your own scene! I do it all the time. And I 
will BBPOST that random effects are allowed in scenes. I love doing random effects. The 
problem is, folks ignore them often. It takes people being willing to react to do 
something. Also, I've had players so involved in their little scenes that effects, player or 
random, make no difference. I mean folks locked into lock-sending forget that there are 
OTHERS out there and that some PHYSICAL stuff should be going on even if the mind 
is occupied. RPing with the self centered is not fun. <done>"

Coryphee had a suggestion way back when..

Traest says "You're up Cory"

Coryphee says "The only thing I wanted to say was that if you have players that 
absolutely can not come up with something to do on their own.. maybe make a post of 
random quick plots that can be run in one sitting, or suggestions for something that could 
happen in a 'normal' day... sort of like a plot generator."

Coryphee is done.

Treestump says "good idea"

Savith raises hand.

Traest LAUGHS! "A plot generator, mad lib style :)"

PreyRunner grins.

Traest says "Savith"

PreyRunner says, "One of my players, Leaf is a walking plot generator :)"

Gentlestorm shakes her head, "Mad libs.... you're showing your age."

Redstar leaves that for the young cubs in the tribes. *wink*

Savith smiles, "What a WONDERFUL idea Cory!!! Absolutely wonderful!!! That's ALL 
I wanted to say. Wonderful."

Treestump chuckles:>

Traest says "ANYWAY, next issue - Leetah I believe had a new one?"

Leetah nods "Yes, I did. Okay...this is another BC issue. But, since that's the main one I 
play, I apologize for continuing in that vein to all non-BC's...but it is sort of directed AT 
non-BC's. Okay...just because we play a BC character does not mean we are one-
dimensional. Meaning...just because Strongbow is a hunter...he isn't only good for 
hunting...and well staring meanly at you....and just because Leetah is a healer...it doesn't 
mean that is ALL she has to offer to a storyline or plot....AND JUST because Moonshade 
is a tanner...it doesn't mean only include her when you want new clothes. I'd have to say 
that is my biggest pet peeve...to be all excited about someone wanting to RP with me, 
only to have them want me to heal something and that's that...and once it is done...they 
don't need me anymore. There...

Gentlestorm raises her hand.

Traest says "GS"

Savith raises his hand.

Gentlestorm says "Leetah, one of the problems is that most characters around here are 
One-Dimensional or in English terms FLAT. That makes it hard to see that others are 
different. I have seen very few non one dimensional characters, dynamic, round ones, 
around here. Those would be easy for folks to RP because they have personal something 
to rp with that keeps going. That may be part of your problem... <shrug> Done."

Treestump raises his hand.

Traest says "All righty, quick question - have we already solve all the other problems on 
MUSH except for BCs? It's getting to the point where we're kind of beating it to death :)"

Treestump apologizes for those that use MUSH instead of MUX (DONE)

Traest says "Anyone? :)"

Savith says, "I had a comment."

Savith says, "I'm typing now."

Traest says "About BCs?"

Treestump is thinking

Savith says, "mostly. Has some OOC Chiefly stuff too."

Savith says, "Shall I finish it?"

Traest says "Alrighty, go ahead Savith :)"

Savith says, "thank you. One moment please."

Savith says "Along with Leetah's point, there's also the BCs responsibility of actively 
trying to find ways to get involved in RP that might seem out of character for the BC, but 
can be explained. That's not a hit at you Leetah. Not at all. I KNOW you're looking for 
ways to get Leetah RPing in ways that aren't just healing scenes. We can't force other 
players to RP differently than they do, not really. We can only ask them to RP scenes that 
seem different, OR try to find ways to do it ourselves. Yes, there are a number of 1D 
characters out there, but that's something each tribe's OOC Chief needs to try to work out 
upon approval. I have to commend SE's chiefs on this one. The sheer amount of WORK I 
had to put into Peyote was mind boggling, and she was JUST a ROBOT NPC that I was 
converting to PC status. Kudos to the SE'ers. Thank you. Done."

Traest says "Alrighty, anyone I missed or have anything else to say?"

Leetah nods "Good points, Savith.

Gentlestorm says "Not about BC's."

Traest says "About anything. I want off the BC issue :)"

Gentlestorm says "Okay... I've got one."

Traest says "Go"

Redstar snugs Leetah, and hopes to give her some RP not needing healing, unless its a 
mother type to a child.

Maddinagh says "hey, Leetah. If we can find a time, I have Kahvi there. Maybe you want 
to meet her ;)"

Traest says, "Guys take it to pages if you can, please. :)"

Traest says, "And Gals :)"

Leetah chuckles at Maddi "Oh boy...just what Leetah needs!! But, sure...though Leetah is 
getting ready to take off for BM soon, I think."

Treestump curtsies;>

Traest says, "And whatever Savith is"

Leetah says, "sorry!"

Savith laughs.

Coryphee points at Savi's crown, "He's a Queen!"

Coryphee grins impishly and ducks.

PreyRunner snickers and was thinking something else.
he's FABULOUS!

Savith takes it to pages...

Gentlestorm says "There is only so much working on it you can do OOCly. Frankly, the 
amount of work you went through was axed by Vitric. So that means that not everyone is 
into making certain types of characters even though we might wish them to. I greatly 
enjoy coughing up characters. And will help anyone with doing so. I think well crafted 
characters have a better chance of being RPed because they HAVE issues. My main 
characters have issues; therefore, I can easily rp them and generate scenes. That is not for 
everyone and I'm not going to be responsible for getting folks to put time and effort into 
their characters."

Gentlestorm misspells but you get the idea. "Thanks Savith..."

Falyeril has disconnected.

Treestump ohs!

Treestump raises his hand

Traest says, "TS"

Vitric raises his hand.

Gentlestorm puts a thumb down on TS.

Leetah says, "Hate it!!"

Savith says, "He meant Treestump, ya'll. Now hush."

Traest thwaps the pervs.

Redstar leaves it to its proper place. Another game entirely.

PreyRunner snickers, "And you all wink at me :P"

Gentlestorm ergs... "What an unfortunate abbr! ;) Sorry Treestump!"

Treestump says "Bringing up the players and coughing up characters. I realize this may 
be a mute point again, however There are lots of places I go I run into someone else's alt. 
This is fun for the first 2 days then It's like reading an old book at times, Yes we can 
handle it, but the other RPers. They get bored and leave. Too many alts on an MU* can 
hurt the RP, I think we need to keep this in mind it's fun to have a member in each tribe 
however leaves little for new personalities to meet, lets face it were all the same person 
on the other side. yes I realize I used a lot of Coma's. And watch much thumb; it's old! 
:P"

Treestump says, "done"

Traest says, "Vitric"

Treestump emends but does not interrupt if he doesn't have to (Changes to many alts can 
hurt RP to too many of active alts in different area's to the same people can hurt RP) I 
apologize, well past bed time.

Vitric says "Just wanted to say that one person's 'well-crafted' is another person's 
'insanely detailed'. Just because someone enjoys writing or playing a certain type of 
character, doesn't mean that a character who does not conform to that type lacks depth. 
And, frankly, I've found that a lot of people's character's pick up their depth through RP. 
If you've got everything that your character is planned out up front, that character can be 
just as boring as one who has left more room for development. Not to mention that all the 
background detail you can possibly pile into an application won't make a person a better 
role-player -- someone with 15 pages of back history can still drive you up the flue with 
one-liner poses."

Gentlestorm raises her hand to rebut Vit.

PreyRunner says "Hear hear."

Treestump cheers at Vitric

Traest hands moderation off to Cory - Traest needs food badly :)

Leetah says, "The nerve...to think food is more important!! *obviously teasing*"

Redstar says, "speaking of food, I must cook as well."

Coryphee says "GS go."

Maddinagh waits for what GS has to say before she lifts her hand

Savith raises his hand.

Gentlestorm says "There is where you totally misunderstand. I'm complaining about 
those who do not have ENOUGH background to role-play from. That is the main cause I 
see here for one liners. Other than the fact that many aren't willing to go out on a limb to 
just... do something that makes them look silly. If you don't know enough about a 
character, how can you effectively play it? Yes, I find out stuff in RP... heck, my worst 
hits recently, as SS, have been via RP two of them this week! But I've got something to 
work with. Not everyone does. That is where I'm having issues and problems."

Maddinagh raises her hand

PreyRunner winks, "Merits and flaws..."

Yani, as the owner of the alt who gave those hits, apologizes.

Gentlestorm says "Done."

Gentlestorm says "Sorry, Cory."

Coryphee says, "Go Maddi."

Maddinagh says, "no, Savith was first"

Coryphee eeks, "Sorry.. go Savi."

Savith says "About growing through RP: Don't I know it! Savith was almost a cookie-
cutter Chosen when I got him. He's far more. But the thing was: he had flaws, he had 
depth, built right in. They weren't spelled out. They weren't planned. They were hinted at, 
things to use to make a character more REAL. Case in point: Peyote. How more flat of a 
character can you have? She was a robot, a THING in mush terms, built to just emit 
random stuff. It was those random emits that lent to a personality, a personality I as a 
player had to find reason for. Sometimes, I couldn't explain it, and so just left it, gave 
examples when it might have affected her past and moved on. But there's a certain 
backbone characters NEED to have. Just saying: Hi. I'm an elf. I can send and howl like a 
wolf. doesn't DO anything. You know? But as Prey said earlier: Crap in. Crap out. I'm 
done."

Coryphee says, "Maddi."

Gentlestorm notes that Savith said what she could not but meant. Thanks.

Savith eeks and adds real fast: It's RPing those hints into discovery that's the fun part!

Falyeril has connected.

Yani says, "That's the problem, though."

Treestump raises his hand

Savith adds again: But they have to be hinted at first, hence a well-thought out BG. 
(Sorry all!!! Brain fried)

Maddinagh says "While there are very few players where I can keep up a constant basis 
of RP without running dry or getting bored from, it can always happen that when you 
have RPed too often with them, RP runs indeed run dry. It's something that can only be 
overcome with constant creativity, if there's no conflict. Conflict creates a LOT of RP, 
and unfortunately, with the current grid, this is a bit impossible. The tribes are too 
isolated, and such plots like the Twin Plot have to be created to create some conflict. I am 
not talking about angst here, by no means. Conflict can consist of many things. Conflict 
with the place you live at, conflict with peoples, conflict with someone you love, conflict 
with your family or friends ... look at our real life. There are many conflicts, even if little 
... getting angry at the bus driver because he is five minutes late, or getting angry at the 
queue you are stuck in after coming back from work ... and later you see that it was 
because of a car-crash. Well, we can't always predict things. They happen, and I 
sometimes get the feeling we are trying to control the situations too much. But, that's not 
my point. My point is that I have often tried to give a really kick-ass pose when meeting 
new people or even during 'common' RP schedules, just to let creativity flow and give 
everyone something they can work with. But, people tend to ignore everything that is 
longer than five lines. People, READ what the other one has to say. No one can see what 
comes in the middle of a 15 line long post, there could be a complete shift in things, and 
then there are players that don't.react.to.it, and then I have to poke them OOCly to make 
them look at it and people get angry at me, sometimes. If you are frustrated because no 
one reacts to you, feel free to poke people. Be so honest and tell them that you can't work 
with what they have posed. If there's someone brooding on a tree, not showing any facial 
expressions and just sending a line or three, then you come up to three lines in total. And 
someone else can't work from there. Also, take the time to read through other poses, try 
to find something you can react to. Play your body language, play your facial language. 
We are not made of stone, and even if your expression is stony, write it."

Maddinagh is not done yet, one another sentence

Savith raises his hand.

Maddinagh says "No one teaches how you can RP best. It comes while trying. When I 
came here I bet I sucked a lot at what I wrote. Over time you learn things either by 
yourself, or when people are so honest and tell you what's wrong. But, that has become 
quite a problem, because everyone fears they will make the other one angry. I am not 
better, I have oftentimes said nothing, too, and while I fully acknowledge that I tend to be 
blunt at times, it's not my intention. I try to be honest, and when I am blunt people have 
to tell me. And not via others. Anyway, drifting off ... If you want others to RP good, too, 
to give you something back from what you are ready to give, then tell them this. Tell 
them you can't work with thing X or thing Y. Among transparency, honesty is required 
for people to grow. At least that's how I see it."

Winnowill raises her hand for a new topic, as soon as there is time for one.

Maddinagh's done

Clearcall has arrived.

PreyRunner hugs the little un :)

Coryphee says, "Savith."

Savith says "<rant> On the point of in depth poses, writing 6 lines of eloquently stated 
nothing is still (imagine this!) nothing! If you're going to be in a room, react to things. 
Don't take 10 lines telling me how you drink the water. KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid. If 
you can't think of anything better, step out of the scene or ask to be skipped. Otherwise, 
don't complain if other players start ignoring your poses cause they really aren't saying 
anything. </rant>"

Clearcall grins and hugs

Treestump blinks?

Treestump forgot to raise his hand using OOC;>

Treestump says, "but I did raise my hand :P"

Coryphee says, "Stumpy."

Gentlestorm raises her hand.

PreyRunner opens his mouth for comment... then just closes it.

Redstar slurps Clearcall.

Coryphee says, "GS go after Stumpy.. Then we open the floor for Whinny's new topic."

Savith says, "Take greetings to pages please."

Clearcall smuggles

Coryphee says, "If you have not raised your hand to speak on the topic at hand, please 
page the folks you want to talk to. Otherwise, please, remain quiet so that we can get this 
meeting finished. :)"

Treestump just wanted to ask this (point: Keep an eye out for those under trying RPers?) 
(point: Short background RPers sometimes bring this?) (Point I make is: We've all Rped 
with them they will always be there. We can filter some out, but sometimes they also 
make up a part of the quick in and quick out grid which can be good.) but if my points are 
wrong let me know)

Gentlestorm nods to Savith and Maddi's points, "Thing is folks. Think of the difference 
when you write, speak on the phone, then talk in person with someone else. You have 
less misunderstandings in person. Body language, vocal cues, all of these things are what 
makes folks react. I've got a friend who has angry body language and folks 
misunderstand him all the time. Little hints of what your character is ... feeling helps. 
Heck... just RPing to a character's disability is good. I cut Dja off at the knees and made 
all my visuals audio things... whatever, done, next."

Coryphee says, "If there is nothing else to add to this topic..?"

Savith shakes head.

Coryphee says, "Winnowill, you have the floor."

Winnowill would like to discuss Alt's, i.e. is there mush policy on how many one can 
have, in one tribe, in a Chief bit/staff bit etc. The reason? If you have a player who only 
connects at a given timeframe, and they play 10 out of the average 24-40 players on MU, 
this harms folks RP that connect at this time. Looking for group thoughts on this. Is 
restricting alts a good idea? Keeping to a certain agreed upon number, or % agreed upon. 
It is my feeling currently that we have too few people playing too many alts, which 
brings about stagnation. (something the Mountain knows a lot about :))

PreyRunner raises hand to comment.

Gentlestorm raises her hand too.

Coryphee would like to comment but, gives the floor to first, Prey and then GS.

Treestump raises his hand! <-- see;>;>

Vitric has to go walk the dog and pick up sundries. BBL, hopefully.

Vitric has disconnected.

PreyRunner says "My 2 cents, if you can't keep all of the alts reasonably active, then you 
have too many alts. I say no hard number, but the players and staff know who isn't 
logging in their alts and have way too many to begin with who don't keep them active, or 
wander off without telling the OOC chief what is going on. If you can comfortably do it, 
then fine, do it. (Done)"

Clearcall has disconnected.

Coryphee says "I know that we were discussing limiting alts at one time and I think we 
decided to limit the number of elves a person could have without having a viable human 
or troll alt to offset. but, for the life of me, I can't remember the specifics of it... I know if 
it was decided on it'll be in the news files but, I think it was either 4 or 5 elves to 1 troll or 
human alt.. not to include BCs or staff alts because those are limited already."

Leetah shakes head "I can barely keep up with two, can't imagine 5 or more."

Coryphee says, "GS.. sorry. I hit enter and didn't mean to."

PreyRunner agrees with Leetah, and I'm on hell, 16 hours a day.

Gentlestorm hmms... "I agree with Prey. You should know based on your abilities. I can 
and have played 4 of 7 characters in a single scene and still was able to field chief 
questions." To Cory, " What happens when people RETURN elves I own? What if that 
tilts me over the limit?"

PreyRunner says "Farm them off on the bboard to a good home :)"

Savith raises his hand.

Coryphee wonders if there are further thoughts on this?

Treestump agrees with winowill. on the stagnation part. I also agree with preyrunner on 
the activity part. Some people can keep up with more than others. I'd say if they can't log 
them in every other time and keep everyone involved then perhaps it's time to hand a few 
off. not nuke, but hand off:> Introduce your friends, don't be embarrassed tell them it's 
like writing a book only your part of the author. I have done so, but they were more a 
coder like me and had no interest in MUSH, only MUD(kill or be killed) On GS's 
question myself I think if there actively trying to work them off and it's a surprise how 
can you hold it against you for trying your best at it:> Perhaps the vote system isn't too 
bad of an idea. I'm not sure I like the idea of someone continually getting more and more 
powerful till there a twink, however I'm sure it will be dealt with.

Savith raises his hand.

Kiralee has disconnected.

Feather has disconnected.

Coryphee says, "Savi."

Savith says "I think the main issue is for staffers only, IE Chiefs+ And only those with 
more than say, 3 alts, not including Staff alts. This coming from a player that holds two 
OOC chief bits, 4 PC alts, 1 BC alt, 1 BLDR, and 1 new PC that I've been trying to flesh 
out for a month or more.... Some don't want to hand off. I don't. I'd rather the character 
die. Maybe I'm just sick that way. In any case, the issue is Staff, IE: Chief+, not players."

Savith is done.

Traest will speak up:

Coryphee says, "Traest."

Eveshka has arrived.

Traest says "Our /general/ rule of thumb has been one major and one minor. Major being 
staff or major BC, minor being a chief or minor BC. So having a staff-bit and a chief-bit 
is OK, having a major BC and a chief-bit is OK, being staff and a major BC is too much 
time. There are exceptions. If someone shows they can handle it, we allow it."

Treestump <-- Minor BC;>

Eveshka sticks her hand up, even though hers may have been addressed

Gentlestorm notes that the general rule could prevent the exception from ever being seen.

Coryphee says "Vesh."

Savith raises his hand

PreyRunner fuzzles Stumpy's beard :P

Feather has connected.

Eveshka knows someone who is a spot-on RPer... but he has semi-limited net access. 
He's extremely qualified for a BC (which we need more of) but he's worried about the 
time online requirements.

Eveshka says "More"

Treestump has disconnected.

Treestump has connected.

Eveshka says "It seems to me that I would rather have a player with limited access who 
/can/ play and make arrangements for RP times and schedule things in than to have a 
roster full of available BCs and no-one capable of playing them"

Eveshka says "That may have been addressed, though. <end>"

PreyRunner agrees nicely.

Coryphee would like to respond to Vesh since she's in charge of the BCs?

PreyRunner says "Quality over quantity."

Redstar noddles her agreement.

Treestump agrees too

Savith raises his hand.

Coryphee thinks that at this point in time, a player that is willing to commit as much time 
as is possible (as with Leetah's case) and put as much into the RP as they can than if they 
sit here and idle all day long.

Coryphee says "As Prey said.. Quality over Quantity."

PreyRunner beams.

Savith says "Just a question: General rule, but not a written rule? Will you be outlining it 
on the new Staff Policies so it's clear, if it's not there already? (another one of those, spell 
it out, kinds of things. I know!) I am to switch CPUs so I don't have the policy web page 
open any more. As for myself against Traest's /general/ rule of thumb: one of my OOC 
Chief Bits is of a destroyed holt. I'm holding it until someone is willing to rebuild so RP 
Staff doesn't have to worry about the area. DONE."

Eveshka noddles

Savith says, "OH SORRY!!!"

Savith hides under Winnowill!

Elyana has connected.

Eveshka snugs Elyana

Elyana snugs Eveshka back. Wow. Folks are still here?

Traest says "Yes, general rule because most of our staffers presently violate it :)"

Savith raises his hand

Coryphee says "Does anyone have anything else to say?"

Savith raises his hand

Treestump has no idea where this came from, but we need a mysterious player. To 
wander the grid.

Treestump says, "that's pretty much it:>"

Coryphee says "Savith."

Redstar says, "You have one visiting LostHolt soon, Stumpy."

Savith says "Can we /get/ something written about this, and start helping those staff that 
DO break it toward not breaking it?"

Falyeril says "Anyone keeping a log?"

Traest says "Not with as few staff and BC positions as we have filled :)"

PreyRunner says, "Everyone is logging :P"

Savith raises his hand.

Winnowill raises Her hand

Savith relinquishes to Winny.

Coryphee says "Once we get enough people to start filling all of the major roles again, 
I'm sure that most of us will have no problem either handing over the BC or the staff alt."

Savith raises his hand.

Coryphee says, "Winny"

Winnowill says "If we have so few positions that they have to be filled by staffers and 
such outside /general/ policy, is that not a more serious issue then the connection times of 
BC's? Maybe its time to hand some of them out on a trial basis to folks that are not 
members of what has been deemed, correctly or not, the "in club?" See if they can fly, 
and if so, inspire new energy in the Mu*"

Winnowill says "done'"

Coryphee says, "Savi"

Savith says "Perhaps, then, RP Staff and/or BC Staff can handle the spoofing of BCs as 
needed, until Players take over the spots or Staff get the help and numbers they need? (A 
suggestion.) Done."

Traest says "Winny, that was the point of our begging people to poke us about becoming 
staffers at the beginning of this meet :)"

Gentlestorm frowns...at that "in the club" and Raises her hand.

Eveshka put her note in. :)

Traest says "Again, if anyone wants to apply to help out with staff roles, please +mail 
staff and let us know :)"

Coryphee says "BTW if you're interested in filling a staff position, please send email to 
the Staff email list."

Savith raises his hand

Coryphee says "Or the +mail list.. hehe."

Savith raises his hand

Coryphee says, "Savith"

Savith notes GS raised first.

Talyrath has arrived.

Coryphee says, "Oh.. sorry."

Coryphee says, "Go GS."

Treestump grins

Coryphee says, "Then Savith.. then me."

Gentlestorm says "Question: The staff is still being seen as a high school clique? If so, 
this is not good. You don't always get to pick who you have to work with and they aren't 
always going to be your friends. The idea that the staff has to show a UNITED FRONT 
only perpetuates the vision of what I saw when I taught middle school. And I apologize 
for saying it. That's just the way you look. Winny's "In the club" phrase concerns me. I 
probably took it wrong though."

Winnowill wishes to clarify per GC's comment, a quick Clarification

Coryphee says "Okay with you Savi?"

Savith says, "Yes, by all means."

Coryphee says "Go ahead, Winny."

Coryphee says "The Savi.. then maybe me."

Winnowill does not believe in the "in club's" existence, but nonetheless has read it in the 
LJ, and heard it grumbled about on MU

Winnowill says, "done and thanks"

Gentlestorm smiles.

Coryphee says, "Savith"

Traest says "Rest assured, you wouldn't believe in "the club" if you saw the arguments on 
the Staff channel. :)"

Maddinagh grins

Gentlestorm says "That IS THE POINT, Traest."

Gentlestorm sorries...

Maddinagh says "True, GS. Staff doesn't have enough Transparency. That's what makes 
us look so alien ..."

Maddinagh says "I guess"

Gentlestorm moves it to page.

Leetah says, "has thought."

Treestump can't wait till he gets his MU* active LOL (done)

Coryphee says, "Savith, it's your turn."

Coryphee says, "Then Leetah.."

Savith says "Politely, I don't think that just staff positions are the only answer. As you 
said, there are too few players to handle it. There are some players that just should NOT 
be staff. Then there are others that most DEFINATELY should, but aren't or can't. I do 
think that staff need to focus on staffly things, and the number of PC-type alts should be 
less than non-staff players. Why? Because then they have more 'time' to work with 
Staffly matters, such as plots, BC apps, RP stuff, and the important task of finding and 
training more staffers. I know what it's like to love your alts. I CRIED at Hummer's death 
and she was, hands down, the most hyper-active, obnoxious little elfess I had EVER 
dreamed of. I suggest, then, that something be done. That a hard and fast rule concerning 
Staff vs. # of PC alts but worked on, while staff with BCs work on getting them hand-
over_OK, while allowing Staff (RP and BC Staffers ONLY) to spoof them as needed for 
major plots and various tribes. Lostholt tribe not withstanding, would require some 
separate discussion, may hap, because of that fast that the tribe is almost nothing BUT 
BCs."

Savith is done, was typing, and stop to read comments that scroll by, so please do me a 
favor and page your asides. Thank you.

Maddinagh lifts her hand

Coryphee says, "Leetah, then Maddi."

Leetah says, "hang on...retrieving post."

Leetah says "I'd just like to note that I've never found the Staff to be too cliquey, 
whenever I needed to talk with anyone about Gem they were willing to listen and bounce 
my idea around, but speed was an issue. Is there a way to make the application system 
more efficient? Also as a side note: I think that if we pick at these issues too much, 
nothing will get accomplished. I think we have covered many of the "blame" issues, the 
reality is it will take ALL of us to make this site function better...staffers, players...etc. 
We know the problems at this point, now it is time to act??"

Talyrath raises his hand.

Eveshka puts her hand up again.

Coryphee says, "Maddi, Taly then Vesh."

Kiralee has connected.

Kiralee whistles. BARELY fits...

Redstar braces for impact. *wink*

Maddinagh says "As it is right now, or hopefully was until now (meaning that it will 
hopefully change), Staff _had to_ be part of the tribes in order to be kept up-to-date. I 
would love to get rid of some of my alts, but I can't because even though I have tried to 
get information, it was ignored, and so I had to continue playing, or at least logging in. 
Up to when Natil posted on her Live journal, nothing would have happened. I am still 
waiting on some chiefs, even if I know that there is nothing currently going on there. But 
does someone come up to me and ask for help? No one had done this besides -- no, this is 
no angel-ization -- Sorrow's End. And yes, we have covered the 'blame' issue enough. 
Everyone carries fault, and me too. And I know this. Some don't, unfortunately. And no, I 
have no clue right now who doesn't. All I am saying is that if the whole Staff wouldn't get 
the information from playing, then there would be no information at all. Consider who 
plays who. We have made a rather good system of keeping relatively up to date, but if 
nothing is happening, well, then that is a problem too. And I am not only speaking about 
Tribal Plots. I would just so love to know more about the individual players, more than 
what is in their +info to send them on a quest, or to organize RP for them. I wanted to do 
that the whole time. I have gotten twice together with people that wanted to RP, just for 
the sake of it. The last time is not so long ago, and I, for myself, found this rather 
satisfying, though I have done some mistakes in storytelling. But, it was completely 
unexpected, and I love scheduled things. But if players don't provide me with extra 
information, things they would usually kept secretive, then I can't do anything for a single 
player. There, just my side on being RP Staffer."

Maddinagh is done, and yes, I am a spammy talker when I talk :D

Rayek has arrived.

Eveshka scrolls back

Talyrath says "My turn?"

Coryphee says "Talyrath, you have the floor."

Coryphee puts on her essay protection cap.

Talyrath says "Mmmkay. Bear with me. I have a ton to say, but I'll try and not put it into 
one 30 line pose."

Redstar snugs Maddie and Cory.

Talyrath says "First: This may be chewing old soup, but just looking at the staff members 
present, I can see that there -is- an in group there, for better or worse. Y'all know each 
other VERY well, and that's more indicative of an in-group/out-group situation than 
whether you agree all the time. That's not my main point though."

Coryphee has a response to just that part..

Talyrath says "I had this discussion with Natil a while back, and I don't know how much 
of it she disseminated to everyone else. If I'm rehashing stuff that's already been said, tell 
me to shut up. Anyway. If you want to cause massive change on the Mush, you need to 
temporarily disband/demote the Wizard Council. The problem that I see is that a council 
form of leadership is very good for stability and it's very good for continuity. The flip 
side to that is that a council can lead to stagnation and maintenance of the status quo -- 
which is what I see happening here."

Coryphee says "We might know each other pretty well but, we don't agree all the time... 
Matter of fact, we argue about almost any topic before decisions get made."

Traest says "Case and point, we had a 2 hour staff meeting before the public MUSH 
meeting to get our own thoughts and ideas hammered out :)"

Maddinagh has to mark her calendar red if she agrees with Natil

Maddinagh says "yeah, and if that weren't enough we have been discussing for the recent 
three weeks"

Gentlestorm thinks this discussion is becoming like an infinity loop... never ending and 
no one getting the other's point.

Treestump believes a good solid staff is important to an MU*. Local can be very good. 
good communication Sometimes RL knowing is very good.

Talyrath says "If you want to create the changes that are necessary here, you need a 
leader. You need someone who will temporarily take the reins, investigate all of the 
problems that are present here, find the root causes and then make the decisions 
necessary to solve those root causes."

Leetah mentioned something to the effect of what Gentlestorm mentioned earlier.

Treestump says, "who is the security person in other words talyrath?"

Leetah says, "that made no sense."

Gentlestorm says, "Safety net, maybe? Investigator?"

Treestump DOES agree that security person should not be someone that has many ties to 
the MU* land

Savith would like to say that he's getting tired, and the start of a headache, so with that, 
I'll bid my adieu's and say that Larias knows my mind on the matters and topics at hand 
very well, and has my full support on her opinions. Good night all, and thank you for 
everything.

Eveshka says, "Devil's advocate"

Talyrath says, "Do I not have the floor right now?"

Coryphee says "Talyrath does have the floor at the moment."

Coryphee says, "Eveshka is next."

Savith has disconnected.

Talyrath says, "Let me finish, please and then react."

Coryphee says, "If you have something to say or a rebuttal, please raise your hand and 
take a turn."

Treestump was reading and didn't see hands for a while. My apologies

Talyrath says "A council structure cannot make the sweeping changes necessary -- it's too 
easy to get bogged down in arguments and discussions and eventually nothing happens. 
A ship only has one captain -- a captain is what you need here. IMO, you need some sort 
of executive, you need a team of people set to investigate the various problems that 
people bring up, you need a change management team to help guide the Mush through 
the changes that are necessary."

Talyrath says "Once the changes are through, you can go back to the council format. 
You'll probably have to, because any interim leader will probably have too much ill will 
aimed towards him or her. Right now though, I can't see a council getting the job done."
Talyrath gets off his soapbox and relinquishes the floor.

PreyRunner like the idea.

Coryphee has something to say here.

Coryphee says "Who wants the job?"

Coryphee says "Vesh."

Redstar says "I could do it, but I don't have the heart to be that tough on anyone."

Traest says "Cory and I are doing the best we can people. We have a Council, true, but its 
two people at the moment. We've been in high gear working on these issues for about a 
week and a half so far. Give us time."

Eveshka says "Does that mean it's my turn?"

Coryphee says "Yes, it is. :)"

Talyrath says "I do it 5 days a week -- that's why I have that viewpoint. however, I'm 
probably too much of an outsider here to be more than an advisor."

Ussa has arrived.

Eveshka takes said soapbox.

Eveshka says "On the note of stagnation and lack of RP on the MUSH, in regards to the 
humans. <more>"

PreyRunner takes a bar of soap ;P

Eveshka says "We've figured that the humans sharing this continent have pretty much 
been beaten back by the Elves and magic. But let's consider that there are other 
continents. What is preventing a Christopher Columbus sort of event here? Maybe some 
more advanced humans were to set sail from home, leave port... and Discover A New 
Continent. Complete with pointy-eared things that call themselves elves. <more>"

Maddinagh says "you know what that is called? Dictatorship. And I doubt _anyone_ on 
the Mush would want this. This would mean that the majority is not asked, that they are 
run over, that this one person gets to do what this person things is appropriate for the 
Mush. There will be no discussions, there will be nothing."

Maddinagh says "Sorry, but I had to say that"

Maddinagh shuts up now

Eveshka says "Suddenly, in this, now we have several areas of potential for RP: <More>"

Eveshka says "1) The Arrival of the new humans. Setting up camp, meeting elves."

Eveshka says "2) The elves reacting to an advanced group of humans."

Traest says "Ummm, Vesh, real quick... it was tried. :) Natil ran the Vraeyan's(sp) plot 
which was exactly this. It fizzled."

Eveshka says "3) Interaction and settlement of the humans into this continent"

Eveshka says, "Ah, okay, then never mind"

Moonshade has arrived.

Coryphee says "Talyrath.."

Talyrath says "Maddi, regarding your last comment about dictatorship. I can think of no 
large successful group that doesn't have an actual leader. Every successful 
corporation/nation/group has some sort of executive, a CEO so to speak. Everyone can 
have input, but it comes down to the fact that someone -has- to make decisions or you'll 
just end up talking a lot and doing nothing."

Talyrath says "Done."

Elyana yays, soap. "Well, the original /point/ of having a dictator (ah, back in the Good 
Old Days of Rome) was to have someone who was unbiased and could come in for a 
specified amount of time, clean stuff up, then go back to whatever they were doing 
before. It's an idea worth thinking about, at least."

Elyana says "That's all."

Eveshka thinks that's it for her.

Coryphee peers around the room looking for any raised hands.

Redstar says "Keep in mind that if we were to have someone to make the decisions where 
talk would go on forever, and clean thing up, that this one person in charge could get too 
far into the role they were asked to do. The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely 
springs to mind vividly here. We'd have to be extremely careful about doing something 
that, even though it would work."

Talyrath raises his hand.

PreyRunner hides his horns o>:)

Redstar is done.

Redstar smirks at Prey.

PreyRunner is not a small fire :P

Coryphee says "Winny."
Winnowill would suggest that per reds concern that the council, in whatever form has 
power to veto or remove the "dictator" The purpose of the dictator would be to handle 
issues so the staff don't have to, to take care of things as an outside person, like hiring an 
outside consulting company. If they act up, fire them. But they are there to help you out.

Talyrath says "Regarding Redstar's comment about power corrupting. The only person 
who you all couldn't elect as Grand Poobah is Traest. Sorry, Traest. In any other case, 
Traest owns the box that this place runs on. If the Poobah tries a coup d'etat, Traest can 
just delete the Poobah and ban him/her."

Coryphee says "Allow me to thank everyone that has come here today to add their 
thoughts to this meeting. I think it has been rather productive on more than one level. 
We've got some new ideas to work with, we've hammered out some of the difficulties 
with things on the MU and we've cleared some of the air together. I hope this will be an 
ongoing trend. Everyone, at this point, ought to know that I am syn on LJ and that I'm 
connected quite often now that I'm back in my own home with my own phone line and 
don't have to wait for someone else to get off the computer before I can log in. Hopefully, 
I won't have further issues with connection for quite some time. If you don't see me on, 
feel free to email me either at cutter@blargh.com or at Coryphee@wmconnect.com or 
you can drop a post on my LJ.. or even message me on Yahoo! caspian_coryphee is my 
name there since my old ID was stolen. Yes, if you get right down to the nitty gritty, the 
responsibility of the MU* and it's functioning comes down to the Council.. there are only 
two of us at this point. It's not exactly fun to make some of the decisions that we have to 
make and it's not fun to hear what a terrible job some think we've done. Two Moons has 
been around for 13 years. We are the longest running EQ based MU and one of the 
longest running with a continuous timeline anywhere. We are trying very /very/ hard to 
make some important changes here. All of the staff hope that all of our players are 
willing to make changes with us and to see TM into its next era.. whatever that may be. 
Rest assured that all changes will be made with a lot of thought and consideration put into 
them.. we will be taking note of everything that has been said to us concerning the 
various issues but, also keep in mind that we can not please everyone on every issue. We 
will be doing what we feel is best for the MUSH based on everyone's thoughts and 
opinions. Once again, thank you for coming and for voicing your thoughts to us."